ESPN.com’s Adam Rittenberg has been doing a cool feature: naming the four historical figures who would fill a Mount Rushmore for each of the 11 Big Ten football programs. (Apparently, this is part of a wider ESPN “Sports Nation” thing.)
He hasn’t gotten to MSU yet, so I thought we’d beat him to the punch by coming up with our own list. And, as a basketball blogger, I feel compelled to expand the exercise to include all major sports (football, basketball, and hockey–and beyond, if people are so inclined).
Three people seem like mortal locks to me:
- Duffy Daugherty
- Tom Izzo
- Magic Johnson
But I have to confess I don’t know as much about MSU athletic history as I should. So tell me who should fill the final sport. Or are there two people out there whose impact on MSU sports looms large enough to bump one of those guys off the list? (Reference: List of MSU Athletics Hall of Fame inductees.)
Once we have a list of nominees, I’ll put up a poll to narrow it down to the final four.
Related: I also have to confess I don’t know all that much about Brad VanPelt, who passed away earlier this week. For those that are either older or more well-read than I am, please share your memories/stories about a man who was apparently a major figure in not just one, but three MSU sports programs.
Bonus Material Incentive to Participate: I recently received several promotional copies of the newly-released DVD, “Michigan State Spartans Greatest Basketball Stories.” All individuals participating in this discussion (in good faith) will be entered into a random drawing to receive a free copy of the DVD.
I eliminated current/recent Spartans since they did not have the necessary historical feel that is required (at least in my opinion). In addition, I only selected players/coaches from National Champions.
My list:
Magic Johnson (1979 basketball champs) – the most obvious choice
Biggie Munn (coach 1952 champs, AD for 1966 champs); Seems silly to have both Biggie and Duffy and I prefer Biggie
Bubba Smith (1966 football champs) – Most recognized player from 1966 team
Don Coleman (1952 Football champs) – the first number retired by MSU football
I’ve got to go with:
Duffy Daugherty
Jud Heathcote
Tom Izzo
Ron Mason
The obvious connection? All won national championships as head coaches for Sparty!
A few more to consider:
Bubba Smith
Kirk Gibson
Mateen Cleaves (not the best player, but definitely the face and leader of that team)
And how about the anti-Rushmore:
Tony Mandarich
Nick Saban
etc., etc.
I’ve heard absolutely nothing but bad things about Kirk Gibson as an actual person. So not sure that he should get consideration.
Daughtery, Izzo and Earvin… the fourth is tough, but it’s a nice to take a look at the MSU Athletics HOF.
Kirk Gibson seems to be a an obvious choice, especially with his ties to Michigan post-MSU. Sleeper pick is Tom Ross, being a storied hockey player. I think Gibby takes the final selection.
I was thinking Ron Mason as well. All time leader in college hockey wins. You could make an anti-Rushmore of Spartans for incidents that occurred this week with Zach Randolph & Jason Richardson!
I agree, they need to be individual’s who have come and gone.
1st pick: Magic Johnson. Between his statue, impact on the NBA, and still recognized by commentators as a spartan, he’s got to be the face of Spartan Basketball.
2nd pick: Duffy Daugherty. The man is a college football hall of fame inductee. Enough said.
3rd pick: Amo Bessone. I know. who’s that? Hockey Coach. He’s won more Big Ten championships than Izzo.
4th pick: Kirk Gibson. 1. to round out the sports, 2. because of his ties to the state of michigan, what he’s done in the pros and Michigan state to baseball.
One could do it on the four major sports:
1. Basketball – as much as Magic was influential, he only stuck around E.L. for 2 years. Izzo has taken a good program and made it elite. He is the face of MSU when you think of MSU basketball. So, he would be the choice.
2. Football – lots of good choices – Biggie, Duffy, Bubba, Lorenzo White, Kirk Gibson, George Webster, Earl Morrall – but I would go with Duffy
3. Hockey – Given his significance and national championship, I would vote for Ron Mason
4. Baseball – you have Robin Roberts, Steve Garvey, and Kirk Gibson as the most significant players. But, given the multisport goodness that is Gibby, he would be the 4th choice.
So…three coaches and Gibby the player.
I agree with your locks of Magic, Izzo, and Daugherty but that 4th choice is a tough one…
I think I would have to go with Mateen Cleaves. yea not the best ball player of MSU history but whenever I think of MSU basketball history that picture of Mateen and Izzo with their arms around each other and crying always pops into my head.
Mason is probably the forth. I don’t know much about college hockey but his record is amazing. One national title, seven regular season conference titles, ten conference tournament titles, twenty-one tourney appearances, seven Frozen Fours, and one other national championship appearance. He has 175 more wins than any other college coach – 23% more wins than the #2 coach. He also fired Bobby Williams (woohoo!), hired JLS (boo!), hired Dantonio (double woohoo), and made sure Izzo didn’t wonder elsewhere. All in all, a pretty impressive record.
Magic – No explanation necessary.
Biggie Munn – Duffy was a good coach too, but Biggie put the pieces in place for Duffy’s success.
Ron Mason – Possibly the greatest coach in MSU history, he has a conference trophy named after him, and that’s enough to put him up.
Molly Brennan – I feel like one spot should be reserved for the lesser known Spartan athletes, and I don’t think there could be a better representative than her: All-American Sprinter (set 14 school records in her time) and Rhodes Scholar in Computer Science. Pretty darn amazing if you ask me.
I agree with the three locks and the fourth one would have to be Biggie Munn.
He’s the guy who put MSU on the map in football, was instrumental in bringing in Duffy… without Biggie you have no Duffy and no Bubba or George.
Magic never did anything for State once he left here, except show up when he wants to open a coffee shop or autograph books. He doesn’t owe MSU anything but compare him to a Steve Smith and you wonder how he sleeps at night.
Magic
Mason
Duffy
Izzo
I agree that Magic has not done all that much for the University since he left. But his megastardom guarantees him a spot. I wasn’t all that thrilled with the statue, though.
I’m conflicted about this. Part of me absolutely _hates_ the Mt. Rushmore thing, because it’s just another example of how SportsCenter has become an utter farce — this feature is joining such illustrious company as America’s Greatest Sports Town (or whatever they were calling it), 50 States in 50 Days, and, most appallingly, Who’s Now. Blehhhhh.
On the other hand, I love Adam Rittenberg, and he’s definitely done the best job he could with this. And I’m not going to lie, I’ve thought about this question a bit, even before it was posted here. So, here goes:
1. Biggie Munn. Won 28 consecutive games, two national championships, and went 35-2 in his last four seasons. Created Spartan football as we know it. He gets the nod over Duffy both because he led the way, and also because Duffy’s last 6 or 7 years at MSU were really terrible.
2. Tom Izzo. Ever heard of him?
3. Magic. Certainly the most famous MSU athletic alumnus.
4. Kirk Gibson. Tremendous in two sports at MSU and had a legendary — and because of the ’88 World Series, that’s not hyperbole — professional career, including a star role on a World Championship Tigers team.
Others to consider: Morten Andersen (probably the MSU alum with the greatest NFL impact) George Alderton (because without him, we’d be the Michigan State Michigan Staters . . . holy mother.), Mateen, Bubba Smith, George Webster, Earl Morrall, Morris Peterson, Greg Kelser (exemplary on and off the court), Ryan Miller, Rod Brind’Amour . . .
I don’t put Ron Mason up there, because while he won a ton of games, our teams under him nearly always underachieved in the postseason. (Not winning a national championship while Ryan Miller was at MSU is nearly coaching malpractice.) Moreover, I think he did a fairly crappy job as AD.
And while we’re at it: the anti-Mt. Rushmore: Dawan Moss (ran over a cop at the Lansing Center), Charles Rogers (squandered any goodwill he had with State fans by being the absolute poster boy for the Lions’ failures), John L. Smith (man, he makes my skin crawl), and Marcus Taylor (somewhat unfair, but his absurdly early departure more or less killed MSU basketball for 2 of my 4 years on campus).
Michigan State Michigan Staters.
That’s like what you get when you translate “The Los Angeles Angels.”
The The Angels Angels.
Kelser is a good nomination. Could not ask for a better representative of our institution.
If the original exercise was for football only, it would have to be Duffy, Don Coleman, George “Mickey” Webster, and Brad Van Pelt. Duffy for his coaching, Coleman as MSU’s (actually MSC at the time) first great player, Webster because he was far and away the best player on the nation’s best team in the 60′s (just remember, Steve Spurrier has his Heisman Trophy sitting on his desk)and the second man to have his number retired, and Van Pelt won the Maxwell Trophy as the best player in the country his senior year as a safety.
Hoops only, Izzo, Magic, John Green, and Steve Smith. Izzo and Magic for obvious reasons, John Green because he was, again, our first great player–though some would argue for Julius McCoy, and Steve Smith for the combination of his play at MSU and his post graduate contributions to the athletic department’s academics.
All sports, that’s the toughie, but I would include Molly Brennan because of her track records and Rhodes Scholarship, Biggie Munn for taking the athletic programs beyond football as an administrator, Webster as MSU’s greatest football player, and Magic as a representative of the basketball program.
I have to say that I would not include Ron Mason–three letters, JLS–define his tenure as AD. I think that there would be some who might include John Hannah because it was his call to bring in Biggie Munn, build the athletic department, starting with football, and eventually force MSU into the Big Ten over the objections of the folks down the road in A-squared. His vision was to make MSU the equal of UM in the eyes of, at least, the State Legislature, and hopefully the rest of the state. He saw that the way was through athletics. At the time I was in school I thought he was a dictatorial dickhead (it was near the end of his road), but in the long term I concur in his vision.
Ha — I never thought about the L.A. Angels thing before. That’s amazing.
Uncle Omar, I like the John Hannah nomination.
I’m not saying that he should definitely be on there, but many who saw him play, argue that Brad Van Pelt was the best Spartan athlete ever. At a time when freshmen weren’t allowed to earn varsity letters, he earned 7 of them among three sports; Football, basketball and baseball.
He was from my hometown and was a legend.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090219/HSS1301/90219048/1055/SPORTS07/Brad+Van+Pelt+was+one+of+state+s+all-time+best
Anti-Rushmore:
Parish Hickman. Enough said.
And not to get into rumors and urban legends, but wasn’t Taylor’s departure not entirely basketball-related?
I would suggest the 4 critical people in MSU athletic history would be
Biggie Munn
Duffy D
Tom Izzo
John Hannah
for athletes only
George Webster
Magic
Don Coleman
Ryan Miller
Came here to nominate Ryan Miller, the most dominant goalie in MSU’s hockey history.
Spartanwoz:
As much as I appreciate his service to the University Amo Bessone would be a very poor choice. It is true that Amo won 5 “Big Ten” Titles (59,67,71,73,76) but these titles were determined by the games played between the Big Ten schools who were members of the WCHA. (In 59 & 67 three teams competed for this honor, in 71 OSU played 2 games against State but nobody else and in 73 & 76 four teams competed for the Big Ten title…compare that to 16 or 18 games against 10 other teams for Izzo).
More telling, Amo Bessone never won a league title in either the MIHL, WIHL or WCHA. Not a one. In 27 years of league competition (no league play in 58-59). Amo also had a losing record in “Big Ten” play and a losing career record (367-427-20). Ron Mason by far is the face of MSU Hockey and as such a much better choice if you want to put a hockey mask on our Rushmore.
Hm. Growing up in Minnesota, my knowledge of MSU history is limited, so anything before the past decade or so is beyond my knowledge. Ryan Miller would be a good choice if you want a relatively recent hockey representative; he may not have won a national title here but he’s one of the better NHL goalies now and his stats at MSU (particularly 2000-01) were incredible.
My knowledge on MSU athletics doesn’t go further out of basketball, so to me, my choice is only basketball-related:
1. Magic Johnson: Basketball can be beautiful thanks to his play.
2. Greg Kelser: I liked to listen to his analysis when I was in east lansing.
3. Steve Smith: He is just so generous and I wish I could help people and msu like him.
4. Tom Izzo: My life at MSU started with a loud bang to final four under Tom Izzo and I still remember police choppers hovering around campus during march madness.
5*. I would like surround this Mount Rushmore with green-and-white Izzone!!!!!
Please, my beloved spartan players.
Would you please play so well on Sunday so that ESPN can zoom in Bo Ryan’s unhappy, frowny face? Then, I can count how many wrinkles there are on his forehead on my hdtv….
Miller is to goalies as Magic is to Point Gaurds. these are two players that very well could be the best to play their spots in college. Also go with Biggie and Hannah the two people that built MSU to what it is today
Miller
Magic
Biggie
Hannah
I’ll throw in for:
Biggie Munn (rather than Duffy)- He first built MSU football into a power, when it was the equivalent of WMU rising to be voted national champs and breaking into the Big 10
Magic- Greatest player in any of the Big 3 sports to come through East Lansing.
Izzo- Duh.
Mason- National title, longevity, jaunty mustache. I don’t hold his AD tenure against him, John L. was a bad idea (and most damningly for Mason a bad process), but he did qualify as an improvement over the embarrassment and bad coaching of the Bobby Williams years.
And wouldn’t the MSU anti-Rushmore just be the maps of the cities of Ann Arbor and South Bend?
Rittenberg’s posted his (football-only) list for MSU: Daugherty, Bubba Smith, Hannah, VanPelt.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/bigten/0-2-1313/Michigan-State-s-Mount-Rushmore.html
Surprised Lorenzo White isn’t getting more love. Heisman-caliber RB on our only recent Rose Bowl team.
I’d say Biggie, Izzo, Webster, and Magic. Biggie put our football program on the map, Webster is arguably the best player in our football history, ditto for Magic in Basketball, and Izzo is to basketball what Duffy was to football. I’d give an honorable mention to Jud Heathcote since no-one else seems to have mentioned him. He might not have as many Big 10 Championships or final four appearances as Izzo but he did coach us to our first basketball NC.
i think you have to have all the sports recognized so if you have izzo theres no magic, and vice versa. also, id put jud before izzo.
magic, bsmith or gibby, mason, then you gotta reach back a bit and go with munn. yes some of those intersect but i dont think they do as much as an izzo and magic moutn rushmore would.
The only thing I’ll argue strenuously is that Izzo comes before Jud. Jud certainly raised the program a notch. But take a look at that banners hanging in the Breslin Center. You go from the Magic-era banners to the single 1989 Big Ten championship banner to the Izzo-era banners.
Here’s the weak-yet-marginally-tenable argument AGAINST Magic Johnson’s inclusion. (Note: I think he should be on there, but it’s just something to consider.)
Look at the common stock of replies: Izzo, Biggie, Duggy, Ron Mason. Four storied coaches, three storied programs. Their individual success maps to Michigan State athletics’ overall success in an entirely symbiotic way. Legends all.
But is Magic’s success related entirely to his years (semesters? seasons?) as a Spartan? Magic is Magic because of Showtime, the Lakers, the superstar. His individual success isn’t necessarily part and parcel with Spartan success. If he’d gotten injured and never had a legendary NBA career, is his face on Mt. Rushmore as an ambassador of MSU sports?
(He’s done immeasurable work for the university since leaving for the ’79 draft, so that renders the criticism moot, of course.)
But still. It all depends on how you want to select the faces that represent MSU. Magic had a hell of a career as a Spartan, but can his achievements with Michigan State match those of Greg Kelser or Mateen Cleaves? Can his contributions BACK to the university match a Steve Smith, who never won a national title, but played four years and won a Big Ten championship?
Magic’s the instant favorite, yes, but depending on your slant, he can be a polarizing choice. Interesting for someone who’s the knee-jerk standard to be included.
This is a tough question. Rather than try pick a fourth person, why not just stop at 3? Daugherty, Izzo and Magic Johnson are the easy choices.
Beyond that it’s tough because there are several great players and coaches who deserve consideration. I’d probably flip a coin between John Hannah and Biggie Munn.
Interesting points re Steve Smith vs Magic Johnson. Both have continued
to help MSU, be involved with MSU. Certainly Magic Johnson is probably the most recognized, famous athlete with others such as Ryan Miller, Kirk
Gibson, Webster, Bubba Smith, Johnnie Green, Coleman, Van Pelt all being ahead of Steve Smith in terms of fame.
Magic Johnson has given back to the community at large maybe more than the specific MSU community in terms of his Aids
work, establishing (i think coffee shops) small businesses in inter-cities and of himself and time maybe more than his money though we may not know of all his donations certainly. For a famous person, he
does give of his time quite a bit. The magic/byrd match up helped both universities as it was covered over and over through out their pro careeers whenever they met. I thought it was great that Byrd gave Magic’s speech when he was inducted into the hall of fame.
Steve Smith will always be remembered not only for the Clara Bell Smith Academic Center which became a model for many universities around the country and helped all the athletes at MSU but for his college scholarships endowed for the Saginaw High School he attended and you would suspect many more generous gifts of his time and money that are not really publized, known. You really get the sense that he is very much a person of both integrity and class.
My vote would be Munn, Dougherty, Izzo and Ron Mason (still the winningest coach in college hockey and a decent AD, JLS hiring aside).
JLS was an out of the box hire, he had though a strong record of
success in turning programs around at all his prior stops. There is quite a contrast between his and Dantonio’s recruiting which seems to be a key to our sustained future success in football.
I would leave players out of it due to Magic not graduating and not
doing as much as Steve Smith for MSU, though not to downplay his
contributions of time spent with the bball program in the last 10-15 years which is an important contribution. Credit Izzo though too for
his family atmosphere and players across the years communicating with each other even though they were never on campus as students together.
You have to start with those that achieved national fame on a national level (to be recognizable to those that would come, in theory):
Magic Johnson, Tom Izzo, Bubba Smith & Kirk Gibson meet those requirements.
Duffy, Biggie, Mateen, Miller, et al all great credentials but are not know on a national scale like these four guys.
@ FWAV
Because then there would be TWO gaps in the layout, and that’s just not how Mt. Rushmores work. Seriously, learn your history.
This is not as tough as some have made it out to be. When one looks at overall impact and character, these guys make the mount:
Izzo – not only developed State into a top-shelf program, but is one of the most well-respected coaches in the nation without question.
Duffy – similar attributes, but also gave black athletes the opportunity to play D-I football. The Maddog Thornhill – Joe Willy story is legendary.
Magic – only one player has put on the green & white that could play for any team in the country at any level. Franchisee on and off the court.
Webster – not only the greatest footballer in our history, but another class act. Only the good die young…and a tip of the hat to Brad’s family, too.