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	<title>Comments for Spartans Weblog</title>
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	<link>http://spartansweblog.com</link>
	<description>A blog about Michigan State basketball and tempo-free statistics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:31:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Final Bracket Contest Standings by Spartans Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Big Ten Roundup plus . . . Why It&#8217;s OK to Really, Really Like Basketball</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/04/08/final-bracket-contest-standings/#comment-1175</link>
		<dc:creator>Spartans Weblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Big Ten Roundup plus . . . Why It&#8217;s OK to Really, Really Like Basketball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=263#comment-1175</guid>
		<description>[...] missed this last week: Devin, the winner of our nontraditional bracket contest, is also the proprietor of College Basketball Chronotope, an IU basketball blog. To reward him for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] missed this last week: Devin, the winner of our nontraditional bracket contest, is also the proprietor of College Basketball Chronotope, an IU basketball blog. To reward him for [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A few links before the blog goes on the fritz by DMP</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/29/a-few-links-before-the-blog-goes-on-the-fritz/#comment-1170</link>
		<dc:creator>DMP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 15:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=286#comment-1170</guid>
		<description>We loves ya, kj.  Keep them posts coming.

That UNC recruiting class is what the kids would call &quot;redic&quot;.  UNC right now is going through the same phenomenon I didn&#039;t understand with Duke in the 90&#039;s:  how do they get several All-Americans to sign up to play with each other, when clearly that&#039;s going to mean sacrifice of 50-70% of the new players&#039; PT, whereas they all want to showcase their talent to be an NBA lottery pick?  I don&#039;t understand how they make that work, but it&#039;s impressive.

Looks like he leans Buckeye, but this 5-star guy is from Fort Wayne also, so there you go:
http://ohiostate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=59604&amp;sport=2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We loves ya, kj.  Keep them posts coming.</p>
<p>That UNC recruiting class is what the kids would call &#8220;redic&#8221;.  UNC right now is going through the same phenomenon I didn&#8217;t understand with Duke in the 90&#8217;s:  how do they get several All-Americans to sign up to play with each other, when clearly that&#8217;s going to mean sacrifice of 50-70% of the new players&#8217; PT, whereas they all want to showcase their talent to be an NBA lottery pick?  I don&#8217;t understand how they make that work, but it&#8217;s impressive.</p>
<p>Looks like he leans Buckeye, but this 5-star guy is from Fort Wayne also, so there you go:<br />
<a href="http://ohiostate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=59604&amp;sport=2" rel="nofollow">http://ohiostate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=59604&amp;sport=2</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Your 2008-09 Michigan State Basketball Roster by TMadison25</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/28/your-2008-09-michigan-state-basketball-roster/#comment-1169</link>
		<dc:creator>TMadison25</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=285#comment-1169</guid>
		<description>The minutes distribution and depth chart looks good.  I am very excited to watch the start of the season, including the exhibition games, to see how Izzo works it all out.  It&#039;d also be nice to rematch GVSU, who finished 36-1 last year.  Although Allen may be the most important piece in filling Neitzel&#039;s shoes, I see Morgan leading this team. With Roe and Suton on the court, Morgan can take advantage at the wing, as long as his traveling has been addressed.  I am really excited to see a season where the go-to, dominant player on the team is someone like Morgan.  The versatility of Morgan should allow him to convert clutch opportunities whereas last year I felt Neitzel&#039;s driving options were taken away, making him more one-dimensional (This sounds hating on Neitzel, but I swear I&#039;m not).  My biggest worries are (1) how Allen responds to his increased minutes , (2) Roe&#039;s knee, and (3)not playing Dahlman enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The minutes distribution and depth chart looks good.  I am very excited to watch the start of the season, including the exhibition games, to see how Izzo works it all out.  It&#8217;d also be nice to rematch GVSU, who finished 36-1 last year.  Although Allen may be the most important piece in filling Neitzel&#8217;s shoes, I see Morgan leading this team. With Roe and Suton on the court, Morgan can take advantage at the wing, as long as his traveling has been addressed.  I am really excited to see a season where the go-to, dominant player on the team is someone like Morgan.  The versatility of Morgan should allow him to convert clutch opportunities whereas last year I felt Neitzel&#8217;s driving options were taken away, making him more one-dimensional (This sounds hating on Neitzel, but I swear I&#8217;m not).  My biggest worries are (1) how Allen responds to his increased minutes , (2) Roe&#8217;s knee, and (3)not playing Dahlman enough.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Shades of Gray by DMP</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/22/shades-of-gray/#comment-1166</link>
		<dc:creator>DMP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=280#comment-1166</guid>
		<description>The worst thing about Gray is he always acts like he&#039; getting it and listening to Izzo when Izzo brings him back to the bench, so that he must really think he&#039;s getting better and learning.  Bad times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worst thing about Gray is he always acts like he&#8217; getting it and listening to Izzo when Izzo brings him back to the bench, so that he must really think he&#8217;s getting better and learning.  Bad times.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Back-of-the-envelope, way-too-early 2008-09 Big Ten basketball conference preview by Ron</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/08/back-of-the-envelope-way-too-early-2008-09-big-ten-basketball-conference-preview/#comment-1163</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 16:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=271#comment-1163</guid>
		<description>KJ, nice early preview of the conference.  Purdue and Wisconsin are likely to be on top, and my Illini are likely to be somewhere in the middle of the pack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJ, nice early preview of the conference.  Purdue and Wisconsin are likely to be on top, and my Illini are likely to be somewhere in the middle of the pack.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sunday Night Links and the Return of Coffee Talk by Uncle Omar</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/11/sunday-night-links-and-the-return-of-coffee-talk/#comment-1162</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Omar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 02:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=277#comment-1162</guid>
		<description>Ah, you youngsters...my favorite has always been Jumpin&#039; Johnny Green.  From high school and a pinboy in a Dayton, OH, bowling alley to four years in the USMC to three NCAA appearances in his three years of eligibility (when only one team per conference was included) including MSU&#039;s first Final Four to a long career in the NBA to a long and successful life as a businessman.  I don&#039;t think you could pick a better representative of a basketball program than John Green.  I loved his battles in &#039;59 with The Bell, Walt Bellamy of IU.  John gave away about 7 inches and 50 pounds, but he played him more than even.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, you youngsters&#8230;my favorite has always been Jumpin&#8217; Johnny Green.  From high school and a pinboy in a Dayton, OH, bowling alley to four years in the USMC to three NCAA appearances in his three years of eligibility (when only one team per conference was included) including MSU&#8217;s first Final Four to a long career in the NBA to a long and successful life as a businessman.  I don&#8217;t think you could pick a better representative of a basketball program than John Green.  I loved his battles in &#8216;59 with The Bell, Walt Bellamy of IU.  John gave away about 7 inches and 50 pounds, but he played him more than even.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tuesday Night Links, AKA &#8220;Recruiting talk returns like a bad rash&#8221; by DMP</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/20/tuesday-night-links-aka-recruiting-talk-returns-like-a-bad-rash/#comment-1161</link>
		<dc:creator>DMP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 14:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=279#comment-1161</guid>
		<description>I know, I keep trying not to go long, but sometimes this board is like an AA meeting for me.  &quot;Hi, my name is DMP, and I a Spartaholic.&quot;

That&#039;s an interesting point on the downturn in the recruiting related to the high recent turnover on coaches, especially since many of previous coaches were (evidently) not very good.  So recruit losses in the last 2-3 years probably reflects the crappiness of the coaches and their recruiting of these guys in the 2-4 years prior to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, I keep trying not to go long, but sometimes this board is like an AA meeting for me.  &#8220;Hi, my name is DMP, and I a Spartaholic.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an interesting point on the downturn in the recruiting related to the high recent turnover on coaches, especially since many of previous coaches were (evidently) not very good.  So recruit losses in the last 2-3 years probably reflects the crappiness of the coaches and their recruiting of these guys in the 2-4 years prior to that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tuesday Night Links, AKA &#8220;Recruiting talk returns like a bad rash&#8221; by kj</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/20/tuesday-night-links-aka-recruiting-talk-returns-like-a-bad-rash/#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>kj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=279#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>Yikes!  Your comments are longer than my post!

Agree with DMP that calling the system &quot;corrupt&quot; isn&#039;t quite accurate.  More like &quot;broken&quot; or (as I said) &quot;unsustainable.&quot;

Also, a very interesting point on why no high school players have gone straight to Europe.  That would seem to make some sense.  Maybe European teams only want guys with proven US college/pro records to market to their fans?

And I agree with Hubert&#039;s analysis of the current downturn in the Big Ten&#039;s recruiting prospects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yikes!  Your comments are longer than my post!</p>
<p>Agree with DMP that calling the system &#8220;corrupt&#8221; isn&#8217;t quite accurate.  More like &#8220;broken&#8221; or (as I said) &#8220;unsustainable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, a very interesting point on why no high school players have gone straight to Europe.  That would seem to make some sense.  Maybe European teams only want guys with proven US college/pro records to market to their fans?</p>
<p>And I agree with Hubert&#8217;s analysis of the current downturn in the Big Ten&#8217;s recruiting prospects.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tuesday Night Links, AKA &#8220;Recruiting talk returns like a bad rash&#8221; by hubert</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/20/tuesday-night-links-aka-recruiting-talk-returns-like-a-bad-rash/#comment-1158</link>
		<dc:creator>hubert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=279#comment-1158</guid>
		<description>A comment on recruiting and the Big Ten. I think some of the current weakness is cyclical. These things go in cycles and in a dew years the Pac Ten will have less talent and more big time recruits will come to the B-10.  Some of it is related to coaches -- there has been a massive shift in the coaching ranks in the league, and there is an inevitable rebulding phase.  Finally, there is no doubt that the weather and winter gloominess in the upper midwest hurts the league compared to schools in the south and west.  That has always been there and won&#039;t change, at least until global warming really kicks in.

My theory, though, is that a final factor has really kicked in since the scandals at Illinois and Michigan roughly ten years ago.  and that is that big revenue sports have been cleaned up and reigned in by university administrations in the B-10 in a way that is not true in all leagues.  Big ten presidents will simply not tolerate &quot;outlaw&quot; programs, and keep the booster nonsense to a minimum.  People who run shady programs are unlikley to last more than a couple years, as witnessed most recently by Sampson.  I would argue -- albeit with no hard evidence -- that Florida, Memphis,  Cincinnati/West Virginia, and other places that regularly beat out big ten schools for top recruits simply operate with fewer institutional constraints. For instance, they can go after the the really deficient kids academically.  They are not as worried about dealing with agents.   There are many schools where the president is less powerful than the AD, and boosters can get an AD fired.  In thsoe schools, winning trumps all other considerations.  The Big Ten is not exactly the Ivy league in terms of purity, but there are standards and there is institutional control.

I believe the difference between the top academic state isntitutions (mostly in the Big Ten, Pac Ten, and the top of the ACC) and the others on this score has widened in the last decade, and will probably continue to increase.  The emergence of the mid majors in recent years will only make it harder for big ten schools to compete.  The solution would be for the Big Ten schools to promote reform within the NCAAS, but that seems to me highly unlikely to happen without some major crisis emerging.  

And by the way, Big ten presidents can eat their cake too.  Despite fewer national championships in football and basketball, they sell out their stadiums and get higher TV revenues than any other league.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A comment on recruiting and the Big Ten. I think some of the current weakness is cyclical. These things go in cycles and in a dew years the Pac Ten will have less talent and more big time recruits will come to the B-10.  Some of it is related to coaches &#8212; there has been a massive shift in the coaching ranks in the league, and there is an inevitable rebulding phase.  Finally, there is no doubt that the weather and winter gloominess in the upper midwest hurts the league compared to schools in the south and west.  That has always been there and won&#8217;t change, at least until global warming really kicks in.</p>
<p>My theory, though, is that a final factor has really kicked in since the scandals at Illinois and Michigan roughly ten years ago.  and that is that big revenue sports have been cleaned up and reigned in by university administrations in the B-10 in a way that is not true in all leagues.  Big ten presidents will simply not tolerate &#8220;outlaw&#8221; programs, and keep the booster nonsense to a minimum.  People who run shady programs are unlikley to last more than a couple years, as witnessed most recently by Sampson.  I would argue &#8212; albeit with no hard evidence &#8212; that Florida, Memphis,  Cincinnati/West Virginia, and other places that regularly beat out big ten schools for top recruits simply operate with fewer institutional constraints. For instance, they can go after the the really deficient kids academically.  They are not as worried about dealing with agents.   There are many schools where the president is less powerful than the AD, and boosters can get an AD fired.  In thsoe schools, winning trumps all other considerations.  The Big Ten is not exactly the Ivy league in terms of purity, but there are standards and there is institutional control.</p>
<p>I believe the difference between the top academic state isntitutions (mostly in the Big Ten, Pac Ten, and the top of the ACC) and the others on this score has widened in the last decade, and will probably continue to increase.  The emergence of the mid majors in recent years will only make it harder for big ten schools to compete.  The solution would be for the Big Ten schools to promote reform within the NCAAS, but that seems to me highly unlikely to happen without some major crisis emerging.  </p>
<p>And by the way, Big ten presidents can eat their cake too.  Despite fewer national championships in football and basketball, they sell out their stadiums and get higher TV revenues than any other league.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tuesday Night Links, AKA &#8220;Recruiting talk returns like a bad rash&#8221; by DMP</title>
		<link>http://spartansweblog.com/2008/05/20/tuesday-night-links-aka-recruiting-talk-returns-like-a-bad-rash/#comment-1157</link>
		<dc:creator>DMP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartansweblog.wordpress.com/?p=279#comment-1157</guid>
		<description>On a quick note, does anyone know what to make of Jamil Wilson being #33 prospect in Rivals and #6 prospect in Scout?  Seems like a not so great sign.  Isn&#039;t there usually some consensus about who is in that top 10-15 group?

Ok, now on a longer note:
I don&#039;t know, DeCourcy&#039;s rant seems to not bring up anything new, really.  Most everyone is aware of the issues regarding the treatment of young hoops talent.  I don&#039;t think the entire system is corrupt, because there is much that is also left to choice.  A Tom Izzo or Bo Ryan can choose to abide by the rules and not go after kids who bring too many questions marks with them, or a Kelvin Sampson can choose to freely disregard what he considers to be minor rules and make all the calls he wants, or a Tim Floyd can do his gray-area cost-benefit math and take a kid who sought his program out because he thought it would provide for the best marketing going into the pros.  There were more than many red flags with Mayo, and Floyd made his choice.  

As his rant pointed out, Mayo&#039;s (and other &quot;elite&quot; players) shady associations started well before getting to college, in the murky region of AAU/school-hopping/private academies/free shoe samples world of &quot;elite&quot; preps hoops.  Yet no one ever seems to want to address that there is seriously lacking clearness of rules and enforcement resources at the preps level, and that&#039;s where the NCCA could lend a big hand.

Keeping &quot;elite&quot; prospects from eligibility is ludicrous, since &quot;elite&quot; designations are subjective and are no guarantee of financial fortunes.  Marcus Taylor and Shannon Brown were both elite preps prospects, but where would these guys have ended up if they had to declare for the NBA draft out of high school?  An easy conclusion with regards to Taylor, but how would have Brown fared if he had not had a chance to develop physically and mentally (yes, being in school helps here too), and was relegated to a non-guaranteed contract of a second round selection?  Perhaps making good money in Europe, and perhaps not.  (By the way, how long until one of the &quot;elite&quot; players, their parents, and/or handlers decide to bypass the end of HS and college process, sign up with a Euroleague team and develop there while making money?  Seems like this should have happened already.)

The system is definitely inequitable - to say the least.  This is not new.  Tom Izzo makes 2mil a year and has almost 10mil compensation annuity fund.  On the other hand, some of his former players don&#039;t have jobs right now.  On the other hand, where would those players have ended up without basketball and without someone like Izzo who cares?  On the other hand, how do we fully accept that the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee by a lot.  On the other hand, where is the school&#039;s donations and other athletic department programs without his influence?  On the other hand, why do any of those things matter?

I don&#039;t know those answers and Vishnu has run out of hands.  I do know that, whatever the case, the disingenuous marketing and propaganda from the sports apparel companies selling dreams of fame, fortune, and grandeur to kids is right there at the base of the evil here.  Their influence in the preps camps and AAU circuit is tremendous, and they know they are taking advantage of less sophisticated rules and enforcement at that level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a quick note, does anyone know what to make of Jamil Wilson being #33 prospect in Rivals and #6 prospect in Scout?  Seems like a not so great sign.  Isn&#8217;t there usually some consensus about who is in that top 10-15 group?</p>
<p>Ok, now on a longer note:<br />
I don&#8217;t know, DeCourcy&#8217;s rant seems to not bring up anything new, really.  Most everyone is aware of the issues regarding the treatment of young hoops talent.  I don&#8217;t think the entire system is corrupt, because there is much that is also left to choice.  A Tom Izzo or Bo Ryan can choose to abide by the rules and not go after kids who bring too many questions marks with them, or a Kelvin Sampson can choose to freely disregard what he considers to be minor rules and make all the calls he wants, or a Tim Floyd can do his gray-area cost-benefit math and take a kid who sought his program out because he thought it would provide for the best marketing going into the pros.  There were more than many red flags with Mayo, and Floyd made his choice.  </p>
<p>As his rant pointed out, Mayo&#8217;s (and other &#8220;elite&#8221; players) shady associations started well before getting to college, in the murky region of AAU/school-hopping/private academies/free shoe samples world of &#8220;elite&#8221; preps hoops.  Yet no one ever seems to want to address that there is seriously lacking clearness of rules and enforcement resources at the preps level, and that&#8217;s where the NCCA could lend a big hand.</p>
<p>Keeping &#8220;elite&#8221; prospects from eligibility is ludicrous, since &#8220;elite&#8221; designations are subjective and are no guarantee of financial fortunes.  Marcus Taylor and Shannon Brown were both elite preps prospects, but where would these guys have ended up if they had to declare for the NBA draft out of high school?  An easy conclusion with regards to Taylor, but how would have Brown fared if he had not had a chance to develop physically and mentally (yes, being in school helps here too), and was relegated to a non-guaranteed contract of a second round selection?  Perhaps making good money in Europe, and perhaps not.  (By the way, how long until one of the &#8220;elite&#8221; players, their parents, and/or handlers decide to bypass the end of HS and college process, sign up with a Euroleague team and develop there while making money?  Seems like this should have happened already.)</p>
<p>The system is definitely inequitable &#8211; to say the least.  This is not new.  Tom Izzo makes 2mil a year and has almost 10mil compensation annuity fund.  On the other hand, some of his former players don&#8217;t have jobs right now.  On the other hand, where would those players have ended up without basketball and without someone like Izzo who cares?  On the other hand, how do we fully accept that the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee by a lot.  On the other hand, where is the school&#8217;s donations and other athletic department programs without his influence?  On the other hand, why do any of those things matter?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know those answers and Vishnu has run out of hands.  I do know that, whatever the case, the disingenuous marketing and propaganda from the sports apparel companies selling dreams of fame, fortune, and grandeur to kids is right there at the base of the evil here.  Their influence in the preps camps and AAU circuit is tremendous, and they know they are taking advantage of less sophisticated rules and enforcement at that level.</p>
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